service at st. maarten's episcopal church with a burial during the afternoon in college station, texas. >> next, state department and usaid officials testify on the current human rights situation in china. and a senate foreign relations subcommittee hearing. >> this hearing will come to order. let me thank you all the witnesses to the 11th and final

hearing on the east asia pacific international cybersecurity policy in the 115th congress. i first want to again thank senator markey for being an incredible partner on this subcommittee. you couldn't have asked for anybody better to work with. the east asia pacific subcommittee has held the most hearings of any foreign relations subcommittee in the 115th congress. quite an achievement for the american people who sent us here to conduct vigorous oversight over our nation's foreign policy. and i want to thank senator markey for the work that we have done together throughout the indo-pacific region we authorize the asia reassurance initiative act, a landmark legislation to strengthen our alliances and deter our adversaries in the indo-pacific for years to come. we conducted five hearings, examining a range of national security economic and rule of law challenges in the indo-pacific. we concluded with a hearing on may 15th, 2018, featuring state department and officials.

secretary pompeo and secretary mattis formally endorsed aria in a letter to this committee. aria passed this committee unanimously on september 26, 2018nd i'm hopeful it will be signed into law before the end of the year. in this subcommittee we held two headquarters on north korea. examining the shift from strategic patience policy at the last administration and engagement policy of this one. we agreed that clearly much more work needs to be done to achieve complete verifiable and irreversible denuclearization of the north korean regime as required by u.s. law. we held an important hearing on cybersecurity policy. examining state-sponsored threats in cyberspace as a vital national security concern for the united states that needs to be seriously and immediately addressed. this hearing today will be the final hearing in a three-part series of hearings entitled the china challenge that examines how the united states should respond to the challenge of a china that seeks to up-end and

supplant the u.s.-led liberal world order. our first two hearings focused on security and economic aspects of china's authoritarian rise. today's hearing will focus on democracy, human rights and the rule of law, values fundamental to the conduct of u.s. foreign policy as for generations. according to the national security strategy, for decades u.s. policy was rooted in the belief that support for china's rise and integration into the post-war international order would liberalize china. contrary to our hopes the report stated that the china expanded its power at the expense of the sovereignty of others. according to the national defense strategy the central challenge to u.s. prosperity and security is the reemergence of long-term strategic competition by what national security strategy classifies as revisionist powers. it's clear that china and russia want to shape a world consistent with their authoritarian model.

veto over other nations' decisions. the so-called authoritarian closing under president xi jinping has resulted in a crackdown on civil society, minorities and religious freedom. the news of mass concentration camps for uighur muslims has shocked the conscience and necessitates a serious response from the united states and the international community. the crackdowns of the tibet autonomous region has intensified. while beijing continues to refuse negotiations with the central tibet negotiation. human rights protesters are jailed tortured and deprived of liberty. a genuine freedom of speech are nonexistent. corruption and abuse of power are rampant. the judicial system is the tool of a state and party and not impartial. so today we have three distinguished administration witnesses to shed light on how the united states should approach democracy, human rights

and the right of law and how the united states should advance these values on chinese soil. >> thank you very much. and again, thank you for this incredible set of hearings. which we've had in this subcommittee. just absolutely fantastic and i want to compliment you for that. and this hearing is just a continuation of that. looking at chinese policies and influences. these challenges are not insurmountable but they require a thoughtful study and close attention. around the world all countries including the united states rely on the rules-based international order to underpin security and prosperity. to help provide a level playing field. the maximum opportunity for the greatest number of people and to defend and protect certain fundamental rights so it is of

the upmost importance that we do everything in our power to insure that this system remains. our first hearing focused on economic policies of the chinese government effort that ran counter to these tenets. the subsequent hearing explored china's military and expansion and its implications for the security interests of america and our allies and the fundamental peace and stability of the indo-pacific. today's hearing seeks to capture developments in chinese domestic policy that could have broad implications. on the way people are treated around the world. what has made american foreign policy strong and effective is not just our economic and military strength, but our commitment to certain values. the world has looked up to the united states, it watched as our democratic experiment developed. one that prioritized the promotion of basic individual

freedoms and liberties. but we must make clear that this wasn't just an experiment. that american democratic isn't obsolete and u.s. leadership on human rights isn't temporary. while american democracy has been messy at times, it's been the envy of the international community. it is what has allowed us to be a moral leader in the eyes of the world. as china rises, it gross ever more influential around the world and elements of china's policy have challenged long-established concepts of rights and freedoms. i, like many others, at one point believed that china's entry into the international community would lead to increased political openings. the promotion of freedom of expression graentder commitment to human rights. unfortunately we're seeing just the opposite trend. we are seeing the chinese government's authoritarian

attitudes influenced five key areas. first it seeks to politically curb dissent through censorship of all types of freedom of expression. this approach is drawing american companies, such as google into this way of thinking and along the way, compromising data privacy decisions on their online platforms to exchange for greater mart access for american companies. second, it is employing extra judicial tactics to intimidate citizens, including those from the united states. along with senators cardin, rubio, senator gardner. we're concerned that this administration is raised -- is not raise iing it's use of exitn

policies to prevent innocent americans from leaving china to violate international vengss and bilateral agreements. we have to do more. third we are seeing the continued ethnic and religious repression of minority communities in china. the chinese government's tactics is being replicated in shin john. reports that as many as one million muslim weekers have been forced to take part in quote reeducation camps where they must renounce their relickous and ethnic identity. this policy is an abomination and defies all forms of basic human rights principles. it falls into a pattern of state behavior as the government's policies tied to christians and members of other faiths is well known. fourth the chinese government is exhibiting the bold behavior of targeting activists. and dissidents overseas.

in one case, a chinese authorities have threatened the family members of radio free asia uighur news journalists, should they continue to report on the activities inside of china. and finally, china's government has protected other governments accused of significant human rights violations. china is working through the united nations security council to protect the government in burma from international condemnation for its assault on the rohingya. weakening international efforts to pressure the hunsen area in cambodia from giving lucrative loans. and it is noticeably silent on president duterte's drug war in the philippines as it strengthens the economic and security partnership with manila. such policies undermine

established human rights, standards individually and they challenge individual freedoms and liberties, the majority that the world holds dear. we must engage with our chinese counterparts head on and work to establish a collective front against this malign behavior. and we have to do it at the highest levels, starting with the president. because we request not defend human rights without the backing of the office of the president. and there are many unanswered questions about how this administration is dealing with china's authoritarian behavior. how effective are we at calling out chinese behavior. especially when we pull out of institutions like the human rights council how are we raising our concerns with the chinese government? and what is our president saying to president xi about human rights? did this come up at the g20?

and if so, how did the conversation go. if not, why not? we don't know. we need to shed light on these questions. if we want to help stem the tied to democracy, human rights and the rule of law. we must insure our deathive effort is successful. i thank you, mr. chairman and i thank this very distinguished panel for being here today. i yield back. >> i'm going to introduce all three witnesses, we'll begin with you, mr. busbee. our first witness, scott busbee who serves as deputy assistant secretary of state. previously he served as director of the security council in the white house from 2009-2011. he managed a wide range of human rights issues. our second witness is laura stone who serves as acting deputy assistant secretary of state at the bureau of east asian an pacific affairs.

previously she served as the director of the office of chinese and mongolian affairs. economic counselor in hanoi, vietnam. our third witness, gloria stael, acting assistant ambassador at the a career member of the u.s. senior executive service we xi was usaid mission director for the philippines and the pacific islands, prior to her appointment. i look forward to your testimony. senator busbee, please begin. >> thank you, mr. chairman. and ranking member marquee and members of the subcommittee. we very much appreciate your attention to the human rights commission in china. defending universal rights and fundamental freedoms has been and will continue to be an essential element of american foreign policy. governments that respect human rights remain the best vehicle

for promoting prosperity, happiness and peace. vice president pennsylvania aptly summed up the current human rights situation in china in his recent speech at the hudson institute. wrr he said quote, for a time, beijing inched towards greater liberty and respect for human rights. but in recent years china has take an sharp u-turn toward control and oppression. i think you both fully described that situation in your own remarks this morning. as both of you mentioned, some of the most widespread and worst human rights abuses taking place in china right now are occurring in the shinjan region. the u.s. government assesses since april of 2017 chinese authorities have indefinitely detained at least 800,000 and possibly more than two million uighurs. ethnic kazakhs and members of other muslim minorities in

internment camps. reports suggest that most detained are not being charged with crimes and their families have little to no information about their whereabouts. at first china denied the existence of such camps, but as public reports have eamericaned, chinese report that they are voeing indicational education senators which glosses over the fact that many renowned uighur professionals are also detained in these camps. former detainees who have reached safety have spoken of relentless indoctrination and harsh conditions. for example, praying and other religious practices are forbidden. the apparent goal is to force detainees to renounce islam and embrace the chinese communist party. the recent testimony of maerigol chilson is an heart-wrecking account of just how badly the chinese government

is mistreating people. life outside the internment camps is not much better. neighborhoods have entry a and exit checkpoints. families have been forced to accept chinese officials into their homes. some have been converted into communist propaganda centers. fleeing china is not enough to escape the long arm of the chinese government. china has routinely pressured other countries to return uighur's, ethnic kazakh's, and other minority groups. even when such individuals reach safety china continues to harass and intimidate them. china's repression of minorities does no end in shin xian. its policies have spread hundreds of miles ray way. for instance to wimpb ae muslim communities, tibetans face

continued repression and surveillance. the tibetan autonomous region was a testing ground. chinese authorities till to restrict the freem om of religion. parrot tent churches are being shut and even officially registered churches are under increased government scrutiny. in september the holy c and china signed a two-year provisional agreement on the selection of bishops in china. members of the church of almighty god continue to face determination for forced labor and torture. >> as both of you noted, the government continues to abuse lawyers, hupen rights offenders and other activists.

>> rights of others and to document abuses. any organizing to raise collective concerns or advocate for social change it seems, including the efforts of women's, lgbti, labor and migrants rights groups runs the risk of intimidation and harassment. journalists continue to have their practices restricted and rights abused. as members of this committee have previously noted, china's system of repression is exacerbated by the government's increasing technology. we see a concerted effort to use both new advanced technology and old-fashioned repression to control all aspects of chinese society. despite these developments the united states continues to advocate for human rights in china. while laura will speak to how we seek to advance human rights in the bilateral relationship. my bureau drl is implementing $10 million of fy 2018 economic

support funds. to support human rights in china as we've done for the past several years. nevertheless, such programs are increasing challenged by the difficulty operating environment in china including the new and highly restrictive foreign ngo management law. we're also working with our allies and using multilateral fora to encourage china to improve its human rights situation as demonstrated through our recent engagement in china's universal periodic review and we along with the u.s. agency for global media continue to push back against china's closed internet by among other things, funding programs that support anti-sensorship technologies and promote digital safety. we welcome spotlight that this hearing shines on the human rights situation in china and work with the subcommittee to support the efforts of those in china who are seeking to stand up for their rights, thank you. >> chairman gardner, ranking

member markey, distinguished members of the subcommittee i appreciate the invitation to appear before you today on this important issue. the united states wants a constructive results-oriented relationship with china. grounded in the principles of fairness, reciprocity and respect. china's protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms is essential to our ability to achieve this vision and realize that sustainable u.s./china relationship. today, china is doubling down on repressive domestic controls in stark contrast to the universal values that the united states and its partners have championed for many decades. in recent years we have witnessed a regression in terms of china's respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms, including religious freedom. the rule of law and civil society. while my colleague can speak more to many of these items in more detail today, and a written statements highlight them as well. today i will share with you some of the actions that the state department is taking to

reinforce our support for human rights and fundamental freedoms in chine in shinjanuary we're alarmed by china's mass detention of uighurs, kazakhs and others in camps, we consistently urge china to reverse policies that conflate terrorism with peaceful expression of religious beliefs or political views. i received reports that u.s. lawful permanent residents, family members of the u.s. citizens and individuals who participated in state department exchange programs have been detained in camps. we regularly raise these cases with chinese authorities and insist china provide information on the locations and medical conditions of those detained and immediately release them. secretary pompeo and secretary mattis highlighted these very issues just last month in washington at the security dialogue press event. the vice president spoke about this issue public entry early october. the u.n. ambassador haley did

the same in speaking about the security challenges that china's campaign poses to the international community. the state department leading efforts to review a u.s. government strategy to address the campaign of repression in xi jan. preventing china's use of u.s. goods and services to perpetuate its egregious activities and strengthen our public policy efforts throughout the world to attract like-minded individuals. department officials continue to meet with members of the uighur diaspora and coordinate to prevent the harassment of uighurs in the united states. the department has conducted outregion to u.s. and china companies to draw attention to the risks to their exposure of chinese abuses and to underscore. u.s. memberses around the world are providing assistance to

survivors of xi jan camps. whose lives or freedom would be threatened. if we are to fundamentally change china's behavior in xi jan, the international community must act together. department of state officials i and others have met with the wives and family members of those who have been detained. we press for the release both publicly and privately of all political prisoners. many of their names appear in my written testimony. though we were unsuccessful in the our intensive efforts to secure the freedom of one person, persistent secured the long-sought release of his widow in july of this year. ambassador branstead has been active in engaging china's leadership on cases such as these. when we speak up, we do so in concert with allies and partners

throughout the world that are concerned. again speaking out publicly is one tool we have. a chinese security official was among the first-ever tranch of foreign officials sngsed using executive order 13818 which builds on mag nnitsky act. america's critical role in protecting and promoting human rights in china is many ways more important today as china attempts to take a global leadership role and there's more the united states can do. we look forward to working with this subcommittee to support the efforts of the chinese people to realize their human rights and fundamental freedoms and promote accountability. thank you for the invitation to testify today on these very important issues and i'm happy to answer any questions you might have. >> chairman gardner, ranking member markey, mr. gang, thank

you very much for this opportunity to talk about democracy and human rights and the rule of law in china in support of america's foreign policy, the u.s. agency for international development leads the u.s. government's international development and disaster assistance. our work saves lives and helps countries to become more self-is reliant and stronger partners. for the purposes of today's hearing i will highlight usaid's work with the tibetans and then provide a brief overview of our support to strengthen democracy and respect for human rights and rule of law. thanks to strong bipartisan support in congress. u.s. aid partners with tibetans to help them protect and preserve their threatened way of life. we support the preservation of tibetan culture. the development of sustainable livelihoods and assistance with environmental conservation. today u.s. aid has supported the preservation of seven million tibetan cultural heritage items in part youth or environmental

conservation support tibetan communities are empowered to leave the management of their natural rear sources from rangelands to rivers. in india and nepal, u.s. aid helps tibetans strengthen their self-reliance and resilience. including strengthening their health and education systems. for example, our work in training features in modern methods, benefitted more than 21,000 students at 75 tibetan schools in india and nepal. helping tibetans and sustain their identity and culture. we have bolstered public service leadership of more than 330 central tibetan administrator staff. in support of sustainable livelihoods, u.s. aid has launched a program to help vendors sustain or grow their businesses through small loans. in fiscal year 2017, the program benefitted over 800 migrant enterprises and boasted of 100%

on-time repayment rate. next i will highlight our democracy human rights and rule of law work this asia. over five years, democratic institutions across asia have been significantly tested. some foreign influences have overtly and covertly co-opted political leaders and exploited institutional weaknesses, given rise to big commercial deals and subversions of national sovereignty. we seeing competing development models this can lead to unsustainable debt or limit political and social freedoms. these unfortunate developments underline the long-term stability of our partner countries. the u.s. government offers an alternative development approach. that fosters strategic partnership and self-reliance. not long-term dependence. in support of the indo-pacific strategy, the u.s. aid promotes governance that's the representative of the will and interests of the people and is

infused with democratic principles of participation, inclusion, transparency and accountability. we promote adherence to international rules and standards and support legal institutional respect for human rights. the protection of which is a cornerstone of strong democratic governance. we have achieved some notable progress. however, we recognize that we still have a lot of way to go. and must remain steadfast in our engagement. before closing i'd like to mention our work. about concerning proving gove governance in the natural resource sector. in which countries depend are, increasingly threatened by irresponsible extraction, predatory behavior and poor governance, that's why u.s. aid prioritizes improving the management of natural resources across asia. that foster adherence to internationally accepted standards. including environmental safeguards that help to mitigate

the entry of predatory players. of particular note is a new three-year program that we're launching calling safeguards that will support responsible infrastructure development in regions. there's no doubt that china is increasingly exerting its influence across the region this presents challenges to our partner countries, sustainable development and can threaten a government's sovereignty. the strategic partnership we offer provide as clear choice, one that invests in increasing country's self-reliance and sustainable prosperity. i look forward to your counsel and questions. >> i think the testimony from the three of you has presented one of the most it damning views of china's rise the committee has heard. i want to go through of mr. secretary busbee's statement. i think it's important in this context to again reiterate what was said here. we're talking about mass detention of uighurs, ethnic,

kazakhs. harassment of political dissidents not just in china, but by chinese on foreign soil. detaining journalist family members who remain in china to harass those abroad. reports that suggest that most people detained are not charged with crimes, their families lack information about their whereabouts, their well-being or how long they will be held. some are being detained because they traveled abroad or because they have family abroad there appears to be no way to contest such detentions. failure to learn the lessons taught in these camps leads to beatings and food deprivation. in your testimony. reports of the use of stress positions, cold cells and sleep deprivation in the camps. reports of torture or cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment including sexual abuse. one goal in the reports from former detainees seems to be

forcing them to renounce islam. and embrace the communist party. reports that there's constant surveillance of detainees to make sure they don't pray even in their own beds in the middle of the night. forced to eat pork and drink alcohol. reportedly being forced, to take medicate with unknown substances. civil society groups say most uighurs face arbitrary imprisonment, torture or execution. one case you cite in your testimony authorities in china used dynamite to demolish a house church in one province. requiring the removal of crosses in some areas, the hanging of pictures of xi jinping and mao

ste dung. thine he's authorities have burned the bibles and korans, we're talking about one of the most significant trade partners this country and many countries around the globe have. with over a billion people. we're not talking about some tin pot dictator ship. we're talking about a country. that people tlook more and more for leadership around the globe. what you have described, or damning evidence of horrendous human right violations. could you please explain, secretary busbee, some of the steps this administration has taken to hold people accountable for these actions? and what we are doing with the united nations and other places to perhaps provide inspection and inspectors access and pressure from these kinds of activities from continuing? >> to prevent these kinds of activities. >> thank you chairman gardner.

>> we've been trying to raise public awareness about the situation. >> at the first-ever religious freedom secretary pompeo freedom ministerial that mike pompeo hosted, he and the vice president called attention to the abuses, and we circulated a statement on human rights abuses in china that talked about the abuses. ever since then, we've been trying to continue to spread the word about what's going on in china. in the united nations, we recently participated in a universal periodic review, which is something that every country has to go through. and in our brief statement, had to be brief because of the number of folks who wanted to speak at this event, we called attention to the human rights abuses in china, and called for them to cease. as my colleague, acting deputy

assistant secretary stone mentioned, there's a robust inner agency underway to look at concrete steps we can take to respond to the horrific things happening in china and try to bring them to a stop. >> have any sanctions been leveled against any chinese officials involved in these suspected or confirmed events, actions, has any passport been suspended, any official action levied against the chinese government? >> thank you very much for the question, chairman. i obviously share our concerns about what's going on there. the tools that congress has given us, we really do

appreciate them. they are the kind of things that we can use. it's a little frustrating, i understand it's frustrating for us as well. the process is sometimes not as fast as we would like. that's actually a good feature of our system. >> i'm going to run out of time. so i apologize. any action taken? >> we are working through a process right now in order to get through to the appropriate actions using the tools that you have given us, and the process is moving along. we hope to move on those issues, and we hope to take action as soon as the process is continued. >> i hope those processes move quickly. i know treasury is involved in those decisions, as well. but i encourage action to be taken quickly. senator markey? >> thank you mr. chairman, very much. i want to raise the issue of

missing chinese relatives of six uigher reporters. what is the administration doing about this? how are we raising that issue? it undermines obviously the credibility of that whole mission, and it creates a chilling effect in terms of our ability to deliver an honest message about what it is that we see happening in that region. so what are we doing to protect these relatives. >> first off, we have raised the cases with the chinese government. so far to no avail. our spokesperson met with the journalists here to hear about the situation of their relatives. at that meeting, she called out again the chinese government for undertaking these actions against the relatives. so it's an issue we continue to track and we continue to press.

>> thus far we've been unsuccessful in receiving any change in policy by the chinese government, is that correct? >> so far to my knowledge, we don't have any relatives released as a consequence. >> what else can we do in this area in order to get a response? >> umm, obviously there's a lot we can do. many of th i referred to in my testimony some of the action we are considering. so we're going through that process. we want to make sure that these are actions that can stand up, you know, under legislative and judicial scrutiny. we will continue to move forward on those actions. i think the real point on this,

though, is that even if we don't have an immediate impact on what we're doing, i think that it's still important that we take these actions. >> i agree with you. more must be done. >> yes. >> i want to move to censorship, google, facebook, apple, are reported to have aided chinese efforts to senator. google is working on a senatored search engine. apple has removed 400 virtual private networks, while handing over their china i-cloud user data to the chinese state owned mobile operator. has the state department engaged the administration to monitor and discourage these corporate behaviors which go against the

fundamental value of the freedom of expression? >> thank you for the question, senator. yes, we have. indeed, we recently met with senior officials from google in the wake of the news story about the development of the dragon fly application. and expressed our strong concerns that any collaboration by them with the chinese government to develop a censored version of their search tool would be very problematic for us. >> i think that must continue to escalate in terms of the pressure that we're applying. we just can't separate ourselves and from the goals we have in china and other countries. there are some calls for uighers to be given temporary protected stat status. do you support that move? >> i mean, that's one of many options that is being considered. >> do you support that move?

we're not extraditing people back to a country which is repressing them. >> we are generally opposed of return to any uighers back to china, and the issue is one of the many options being considered. >> i think it is the option, which should be considered and implemented. we just can't, as a country, be sending back to what we know is repression. and what is our diplomatic strategy to engage muslim majority countries to condemn chinese behavior? it seems like there should be more of an outcry from the muslim world. we haven't heard them. these are muslims who are being oppressed inside of china. what is the united states strategy to get more cooperation from muslim countries to speak up for their co-religionist? >> a very good question. i was in malaysia and raised

this issue with the government there, and we have been raising with other muslim majority countries. again, with a goal of establishing a like-minded -- >> have we raised it with saudi arabia? >> i can't speak to saudi arabia. >> do you know if we have, ms. stone? >> we would be happy to get you a list of countries that we have raised it with. i know it's been the majority of muslim majority countries. >> i don't think china is going to respond unless they know in the muslim world, from government to government, we should be telling saudi arabia and other countries, we expect that as their policy. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator rubio? >> thank you. this is much more than just the balance of trade. among those, president xi reviews himself as a transformational figure. many of the things that are being talked about today are part of it. when we look at the abuses well

documented against the uigher muslims, the long standing attacks on practitioners, we know the stress that christianity has faced. and then oh the field of democracy, we have seen the erosion of it. in hong kong, the disqualification of pro democracy candidates. and we see the global reaction to it. and there's reason to be concerned that this post world war ii, pro democracy, pro human rights global norms are being eroded and reshaped, and china is using its geopolitical and economic power to push it in that direction. senator markey mentioned the silence of the muslim world in the face of forced internment of hundreds of thousands of muslims -- muslim uighers. in the u.n., security force s

ejected an ethnic uigher representing a credited nongovernmental organization. and greece blocked the european union from issuing a statement or a position of the human rights council. for the first time i believe ever, a definitive statement, delivering a statement, and we can all summize why. the list goes on. in 2017, the u.n. secretary-general introduced president xi at an event that was closed to civil society by the way and made no difference of human rights environment in china. the eu council and commission at a summit in brussels on the first and second of june publicly expressed concern about human rights abuses in china, but didn't call for the release of political prisoners, including citizens of the eu, or the repeal of abuse of laws.

this is all from a report i believe from human rights watch. in june, the italian police detained and later released the same ethnic uigher n fwrvegsgo,y briefly retained him, even though he had been invited to be there. on issue after issue, you can see around the world that even nations that long have been committed to democracy and human rights when it comes to china, are either being quiet, looking the other way or to the point where they can't speak out. so that's why it's so important for the united states to be forceful about it. because no one else can or wants to. when others do want to, you're concerned that we don't join them. as an example, there were 15 western ambassadors in beijing spearheaded by canada. they reportedly sent a letter to the xi jinping communist party chief. he's seeking a meeting and

expressing deep concern regarding the growing crackdown. i'm curious, why didn't the u.s. sign onto that letter, do you know? >> umm, so we agree with you completely. thank you very much for the question and the clear statement of support for the u.s. speaking out strongly on the human rights conditions in china and also the commissions there. the specific letter, sometimes the countries involved, they are like-minded partners, and we may or may not join on any kind of particular maesh they areeasureg out of the embassies in beijing. but we are working consistently with those like-minded partners to do real action. we have many more tools, and we also have a lot more signs

sometimes to take real action. >> i'm running out of time. if we're here complaining on the one hand how these countries aren't doing enough, when they do something, we can't sign on to a leter? i don't know if that decision was made here in d.c. as part of the broader relationship with china or the ambassador, but i think it was a big mistake. in your written testimony, you mention the fact that chinese security services are harassing uigher services abroad. we heard first hand from people who say this is the case. can you tell us if the department is working with others on this issue, and what sort of outreach is anyone doing in these communities who feel like the long arm of china is reaching them here in the united states? >> yes, we are. we're working closely with the fbi to make sure any information that comes our way goes to them. in terms of making sure that the

message gets out, when we meet with the communities, we do everything we can. we also ensure that we're updating our travel sites to make sure that people are aware of the situation. >> again, in this case, these are people inside theite. i agree with the travel part. finally, in your written testimony, you indicated that the department conducted outreach to u.s. and chinese companies to draw attention to their risk of exposure to these abuses. there's a company that sold dna sequences to the police there. this is against the backdrop of grave human rights violations, including mandatory banking of the entire population. they are forcing people to turn over blood to get a passport.

and american companies are selling them dna sequences. is that one of the companies that the state department has reached out to and expressed concerns how their technology could be used by the chinese to do these horrifying things? >> i can't speak to that particular company, but that's the kind of company we are speaking with. >> thank you for your testimony. senators gardner, markey, rubio, danes, warner, and i wrote a letter to secretary pompeo about the radio free asia journalist families on the 26th of july. to my knowledge, we have not received a reply to this letter. it was a letter to ask secretary pompeo to brief us on the status of the cases and what's being done to try to help the family members who are detained for the six journalists or residents of

virginia. i would like to introduce the letter into the record hopefully without objection. do you know -- secretary is pompeo is busy, we're not expecting him to drop everything and respond, but somebody needs to respond to this letter. it's more than four months old. it may not been within any of your purviews, but i would hope that you take that to the committee, that when we write a letter, we're not just doing it for our health. has secretary pompeo raised the issue of the imprisoned journalist's families directly with his counterpart? are you aware of whether he has or not? >> on that specific issue, he obviously has raised it, as you can see in the security dialogue. whether he's raised that particular case, could i take that and get back to you? >> please. i would hike to asks know whether the ambassador has raised the issue with his

counterpart. and i would like to know an answer to whether president trump has directly raised this issue in dialogue with the chinese. again, we would appreciate a response to this letter, which is now more than four months old. i've got to tell you, i'm nervous about this issue, and these journalist families. just last week, the secretary of state wrote an editorial in "the wall street journal" with respect to another journalist, virginia resident jamal khashoggi, who was murdered by the saudis. and this is a quote from his editorial. "the october murder of saudi national jamal khashoggi in turkey has heightened the capitol hill cater walling and media pilon." you know, we're not raising this issue about journalists who are being targeted and their families being targeted just to score political points. it suspect about media pilon, we put it in the first amendment

for a reason here in this country. we put it in the first amendment for a reason. and when people living in virginia, my home state, living in this country walk away, are being murdered or their families being targeted, and we're silent, we're not taking ample steps, it raises questions about whether we are being faithful to the values we proclaim. i will give secretary pompeo credit. the first paragraph of that editorial suggests our raising the question of khashoggi is caterwalling. i don't like being accused when i raise a question about the murder of a journalist who lives in my state of being engaged in a media pilon. let me switch for a moment and ask this. do you have a good estimate of

the number of uighers currently being detained in detention camps in china? >> thank you, senator, for the question. in my statement, what i said, and this is derived from what our intelligence bureau estim e estimat estimated, there are east 800,000, and possibly a couple million folks in these detention facilities. >> that's staggering. i've seen press reports that it's a million, and i think you're right, it's hard to get a fix on the exact number. but that's a staggering number. press reports indicate that a million hahn chinese have been recruited to forcibly occupy the homes of uighers. so those who are not in detention camps, are having hahn chinese placed in their homes,

so people will be studies to make sure there isn't a koran visible, they're not praying during the day. we have the third amendment, which prohibits the quartering of government troops in people's homes. it's never really been used, because no government is stupid enough to try to do it. but the idea of having these uighers in chinese homes, this is very significant. the last thing, the situation there is also an interesting one. what exactly is the chinese government's rational for imprisoning fallon gong members, is it just the general suspicion of coordinated active or a belief that their ideology is somehow counter the state.

explain that to me, please. >> thanks for the question, senator. i think your analysis is right. the mere fact that there is a froup of people meeting independently, with views that are independent of the communist party is viewed as a threat. that's the primary source. >> so there's no organization that fallon gong separating in terrorist activities? >> not to my knowledge. >> thank you very much. >> i want to go pack to a comment i made during my first round of questions.

so to my knowledge, no u.n. official charged with looking into human rights issues has been allowed access to china. >> has the united nations -- the u.s. presence at the u.n. pushed for such access with china and tried -- or attempted to build a coalition, encouraging china to accept such -- >> we have regularly raised that issue with the chinese government, urging them to receive -- >> has our ambassador asked to visit the region? >> we haven't asked recently. it's on a list of places that we do want to visit.

the united states journalists do occasionally visit there. it's not a closed area. our concern is we need an independent body from the united nations to go in and do a proper investigation. >> i would encourage the visit to request such a visit and to everything we can to get in there immediately. this is not acceptable. again, this is somebody that we are doing billions of trade with each day. and some of the most heinous human rights violations are occurring before our eyes. >> mr. chairman, that's a very good point. such access depends on the ascent of the chinese government. >> in the trade discussions, the tariffs that have been levied, has human rights ever been brought up in the tariff conversation?

>> i haven't been in the trade meetings. in the discussions i've been in, think eve been at a technical level. but whenevering to preparations for any visit, i always raise these issues. i feel very strongly about it, and i feel as though the u.s. government has a real role in making sure that china knows to the extent they want to play a greater role in the world, this is just essential. these are the international norms that they have to abide by. >> and is china still receiving laborers from north korea? >> i'm sorry, i have to get back with that information. >> i guess one of the concerns that i've had over the past several years, china's willingness to accept laborers and basically violations by north korea of human rights.

are you familiar with any of the actions taken? >> i'm familiar with the fact that the -- in the past, china certainly accepted a large number of laborers from north korea. because the north korean laborers do not have the ability to keep their own salaries and have any kind of freedom, we do consider them to be slave laborers. and one of the things that we worked with our like-minded partners in the u.n. security council was to ensure that the laborers and new ones going in to countries have to be tapered off. >> thank you. administrator steele, when it comes to tibet, conversations regarding the dalai lama and the catholic church's decision to

agree with -- how does that affect the dalai lama and future actions? >> we have been working in tibet for over 20 years. we have stayed around the same areas that they have indicated is of interest to them and we believe it will continue to stay. >> that's probably not the best question for you. but if you would like to comment about that, as well. >> so in terms of recent agreement with the church -- the catholic church and the chinese, obviously it's something that we're watching very closely. the u.s. government has not taken a position on the actual agreement. but we are aware of the fact that the chinese government in the past has taken a very

oppressive role towards religion. so we want to track this closely. >> thank you very much. i would like to turn to the united nations, the security council, china blocking condemnation of the burmese government over their treatment 06 the rohingya. so what is the strategy which the united states has? to put pressure on china, using our other allies in order to ensure that there is maximum pressure, which is imposed upon the chinese foft. so that they don't continue to block official statements about global condemntation about the burr these poll i. >> thank you for the question, senator. as you have seen ambassador haley in new york has raised

burma on multiple questions. indeed, when our report on abuses in rakhine state was first finalized, she was the one who raised the conclusions in that report in the security council. so we continue to raise our concern about what has happened in the security council. we continue to discuss with our allies how to raise the situation of burma and rakhine state in the u.n. generally. but as long as china has a veto, it's already difficult to overcome that in any way. i believe there have been discussions with the choi these about this. china has an interest of sta wilt in the region, but have not indicated a willingness for security council action when it comes to burma. >> did president trump raise these human rights issues with

president xi? what was that conversation, if anybody, that hook place between president trump and president xi on the issue of human rights, where china is helping engage in repressive behavior. >> unfortunately, i was not in the room. and so i do not know the discussion that went on during the meeting between president trump and president xi.

there's no evidence that the president raised the issue. president trump is meeting with president xi, that's the point at which american values are restated very strongly, and that he understands, that is xi understands that the united states is willing to pay price for our maintenance of our leadership of human rights issues around the planet. so that chelearly has not taken place. now, with regard to the issue in tibet that chairman gardner raised, and what we are saying to the chinese government about the dalai lama, about the protection of religious liberty in tibet, could you give us a summary of what our statement of

policy is that we are sending to the chinese government? >> thank you very much for that important question. the united states is deeply concerned 5b eed about the lack meaningful autonomy for the chinese people. we have pressed for the release of detained activists throughout the entire country, but very importantly, on the tibetan plateau and historical tibet. we have been pushing for reciprocity of access. i know that's an important issue. we want to work with congress on that shared goal. and we do continue to have very serious concerns about the ability of the tibetan people to continue to have the ability to express their unique culture, their unique language and religious practices. >> it's cheer that thelear that

systematic effort by the chinese government around the world to back those policies, which are most repressive. which allow for a compromise of human rights. it can be facebook, google, but it can be the uighers, the ro hin -- rohingya, it can be other countries, venezuela, any place they're willing to turn a blind eye and use economic power, repression of a government to those rights. so we have high expectations for you. but we have higher expectations of president trump, as well, to express those views clearly and powerfully, insistently, persistently. with the chinese leadership, we

haven't seen evidence of that thus far. but we thank you for your service. thank you, mr. chairman. >> senator cain. >> will you endeavor to get us a response to the letter we sent in july? >> i don't believe i've seep the letter, but we'll get you a response. >> thank you. >> thank you, senator. i want to follow up on the questions of tibet. i asked regarding catholic church policy, the agreement they reached with china, and the dalai lama. china said that they will pick the next dalai lama. the tibetan process mandates that american officials should visit tibet on a regular basis. if choi these tries to oppose a dalai lama, what would the u.s. response be? >> thank you very much. i think that's a very important

question. the fact that you're asking that question is an important signal to the chinese government, that this is the kind of issue we're watching closely at senior levels. the united states has a very clear position that decisions, religious decisions should be made within religious organization organizations. i wouldn't want to prejudge how a future scenario would roll out, but i would like to lay a marker, that is the clear position of the united states government, and i think widely supported within american society. that those are the kinds of decisions that should be made by religious communities on their own. >> thank you. i think it's clear this congress would not recognize that. we know that very few diplomats

or officials have been able to visit tibet to date, primarily because of the chinese government refusing to grant access. could you describe the level of access to tibet your agency has received over the last three years? >> i'm sorry, sir, i don't have it in my fingertips, the exact number of visitors. so i would ask that we be allowed to get back to you on that. but i do want to state very clearly that i do understand that the senate is considering the reciprocal access. we want to continue to look closely with congress and yourself with the goal of seeing americans do have access. >> it's pomplt -- i know chines officials have been freely coming to the united states. i don't know if you know that number, but i would like to know those numbers. i think we need to consider

reciprocal access as part of our policy and approach to tibet, china, and what is -- what's being done to address this and to promote our access to tibet. do you share the goals of our reciprocal act? >> we certainly share the goals and look forward to work with you to figure out how to achieve those. >> and if passed, you would work to implement it? >> of course. >> thank you. >> mr. chairman, i have one final question. that's on the human rights council. we're trying to push china on their human rights abuses and the human rights council is one aspect of our ability to coordinate with allies to put pressure on those two are violating human rights. we are now pulling out of the

human rights council. how does that hurt our ability to rally other nations to put together a plan and do so in a comprehensive way, using that human rights council as a mechanism to accomplish that goal? >> thank you for the question, senator. as you know from secretary pompeo and ambassador haley's statement at the time of the decision to withdraw from the council, our concerns had to do with the membership on the council, which i should point out included china. china has been a member of the council for a lot of the council's years. as well as the process by which members are elected to the council. and our second colonel was the fact that the counsel pays disproportionate attention to israel. after years of trying to fix both of those problems, we were not succeeds, and that prompted

the decision to withdraw. however, the fact that we have drawn from the council doesn't mean we are withdrawing from advocacy. in new york, we have raised our questions about china, we have raise audit in multiple statements publicly. in the case that senator rubio raised, and china sought to preclpr preclude a meeting. we pushed back and got that person access to u.n. and new york. so we continue to look at any and all venues, which we can push back on china's own situation and efforts to inclus the urn. >> well, i don't think any and all is accurate. i don't think we have any evidence the president is using his leverage with president xi to communicate.

i disagree, i think that being in the human rights council does help, because it's the organizing prince pl. and we might not be happy with all aspects of it, by on this china issue, i think it's an additional point of significant pressure, which we should be using. as an organizing principle to send a strong message on human rights. i think down the line, there are many tools not being used from the oval office down to the human rights counsel, as well. there's evidence that we're not really seeing any response from the chinese. so i think that a chance in direction is absolutely necessary. so thank you, mr. chairman. thank you for your incredible

leadership on this committee. and we thank the witnesses, as well. >> thank you. secretary, you talked about some of the dollars used towards democracy training. i would point out how important those are, teaching young leaders about the values of human rights. and senator marco and i introduced an act to increase dollars for democracy, programming, training, and hope you will work with us. >> it is a major component of the administration's specific strategy, the strengthening of democratic institutions, which is part of my testimony here. we all realize that there is a need to have balance in the development of the systems.

and that's how we will be able to play a role in counterpal lapsing the fact that china has. they are adversarial, and e just wanted to confirm and verify that it is going to be a very important component 06 the administration in the pacific strategy. >> thank you very much for that. thank you to all of you for your testimony today. for more information, chosed till thursday. and i ask that the witnesses respond as quekly as possible. thanks to this committee. the hearing is now adjourned.

a live look this afternoon at the capitol rotunda with president bush george h.w. bush is lying in state. the public has been offered the opportunity to pay their respects. tomorrow, a state funeral will be held, and afterwards, the remains of the former president will head back to texas for a public viewing in houston wednesday night. then thursday a service, with a burial in the afternoon in college station, texas. live coverage of these services on c-span. when the new congress takes office in january, it will have the youngest, most diverse freshman class in recent history. new congress, new leaders. watch it live on c-span, starting january 3rd.

senate foreign relations committee bob corker and ranking member bob menendez spoke to reporters about the death of journalist jamal khashoggi after a closed door briefing from the cia director gina haspel. >> i have zero question in my mind that the crown prince, mbs, ordered the killing, monitored the killing, knew exactly what was happening, planned it in advance. if he was in front of a jury, he would be convicted in 30 minutes, guilty. so the question is, what do we do about that? so far, it's unfortunate, but i think they feel like this is something